Together, Fox play-by-play team John Strong and Stu Holden have called over 200 matches together. According to Fox, that’s more games than any other English-language television duo in the last five years, and it’s a total that will rise on Saturday evening when the pair call the Copa América final between Brazil and Argentina.
However, this one will be different than many other finals, as Strong and Holden have had to adjust over the past year, as the COVID-19 pandemic has changed the way networks broadcast live sports. For Saturday’s final, Strong and Holden will both be in Fox’s studio in Los Angeles to call one of sport’s fiercest rivalries.
The duo spoke to The Athletic ahead of the final about how they’ve each prepared to cover this year’s controversial Copa América. This interview has been lightly edited and condensed for clarity.
Let’s start from the beginning. This tournament was on the verge of getting cancelled. Did you ever think ‘this may not happen’?
Holden: Yes, 100 percent. I think we all recognize what has happened the last year and a half and to expect the unexpected. We live in a time now I think where we have to be nimble and quick. Regardless of what was going on, it always felt like they wanted this tournament to happen and it was an important time for the South American teams and for CONMEBOL. When the tournament finally did get that greenlight, it was just, ‘plow ahead.’
Strong: My ramp up was different because I had the Westminster Dog Show. I already knew I was going to be going to that. At the risk of this being a clumsy or imprecise metaphor, a lot of this actually has reminded me of the MLS is Back tournament last year. There were delays. There were negotiations. At the beginning of the tournament the focus was on COVID and bubbles and testing. Once everyone got a game or two under their belt, and spent a week or so in tournament mode, the conversation shifted towards the soccer— same as MLS is Back after the first week or 10 days. Because we went through so many of these different things over the last year, it wasn’t like any of the pieces of this tournament or, the different parts of it, were somehow jarring to us. For me it was still just the enthusiasm that I had to be calling the Copa America again.
Holden: And when it finally got announced John was like ‘Oh, shih tzu!’ …No? Bad joke.
Strong: Honestly, you keep cutting out so I didn’t even hear your punch line, but I’m sure it was lovely.
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I thought it was great. But Stu, let’s talk about preparation and research. How have you prepared for a South American continental tournament?
Holden: For me the best thing that I can do in my role is just to watch games. I’ve watched the Copa América every time that it’s been played, but I don’t watch it to the same extent when I know that I’m covering it. It was actually a big benefit that they had the World Cup qualifiers right before the tournament because you got a look at basically the same rosters that were going to be playing in the actual tournament itself. I said this to John maybe a week ago: This is going to be the best thing for us come the World Cup next year. We will have covered these teams to the extent that we have and done all the prep and the research. We’ll be able to lean back on that once we get to the World Cup.
John, when people listen to you, they often learn something about the teams or the players that goes beyond the pitch. How did you prepare those stories for this Copa América?
Strong: If that’s what people have come to accept from me, I’m thrilled if that’s the case, to be honest, because that’s a big focus of what I do. You think of all the friendlies the U.S. men have played against every CONMEBOL nation. In the last couple of years I’ve called Venezuela. I’ve called Bolivia. I’ve called Peru. The fact that there are so many MLS players in this tournament makes it super easy and really fun.
This is the first time that a South American Copa America is getting this kind of a platform on English-language television in the US. That it’s on FS1. That it’s on the Fox network. No disrespect to ESPN Plus or BeIN, but it’s never been on this sort of a level. South American soccer in general has been somewhat underrepresented. Copa Libertadores and the qualifiers and South America. So, taking real responsibility to try to dig these stories out and to tell the stories and to get you to care about Venezuela versus Ecuador. It’s also not my job to sit here and tell these massively overarching historical stories, but at least to give some sort of context and background to the significance of what you’re seeing.
What have been some of the challenges of covering a major tournament remotely? Where in the world is John Strong?
Strong: (Laughs) At this particular moment I’m at my office at home in Portland. I called the opening match (Brazil vs. Venezuela) at the dog show. They set me up in Tarrytown, New York. I called Argentina – Chile the following day in Los Angeles because I couldn’t get back to Portland in time. I’ll be in LA this weekend for the final. So it’s sort of been a mix. For those of us in the business, we’re used to calling games off a monitor. It’s nothing new at all. I’ve called games that have been played on five different continents for Fox. In that regard, none of this felt particularly massively challenging. There are always moments where you can tell the directors who like to cut to the coach immediately and sometimes you hear a whistle, but you don’t see the ref.
Stu and I have learned how to call games where we’re in different places. It is a joy to be next to one another as we will be on Saturday, but I think the best thing that we’ve been able to do, hopefully, is if you don’t have any clue at home where I am, and if you don’t have any clue whether Stu and I are in the same building, and it sounds and feels the same. That’s us doing our job.
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Stu, you’re also part of the studio team. You’re doing in-game analysis and you’re part of the pre-game where you kind of have to set up the match itself. When you’re in the stadium, doing that kind of double duty obviously isn’t quite as possible. Are you getting used to that?
Holden: I love it, but there’s nothing that replicates being inside a stadium for big matches. I have done studio work throughout my broadcasting career, but it was never really a possibility to do both. It’s really not that much more prep for me because I’m already prepped for the game in a different way than I would normally prep for studio. For studio I cover the picture. The game coverage typically goes a lot deeper in layers and on each player versus knowing the top two or three players. I’ve loved being able to have that opportunity to do both and mix it up with Alexi (Lalas) and Mo (Edu) and Aly (Wagner) and give a different type of insight than I would in the game.
Have you noticed a common denominator tactically throughout this Copa America?
Holden: I would say, in general, I feel like the teams are very well organized. I would say tactically that the level of coaching has felt very good. I said this about (Argentina coach Lionel) Scaloni as well. I think he’s clearly been a revelation as a coach. The in-game adjustments that all these coaches are making. (Brazil coach) Tite is breaking the norm of making a halftime sub every game to completely change the balance of the game. And Brazil in the second half every time were just pummeling teams. I think we do associate South American soccer with flair and with style — (Carlos) Valderrama and (Diego) Maradona, and Pelé. But now you’re seeing a Brazilian team that has four insanely good defenders and Casemiro in front. They don’t give up chances. They never look uncomfortable defending, and then they still have the flair guys up front. That’s a type of recipe they could win South America a World Cup for the first time since 2002.
Copa América is being played congruent with the Euro 2020. It’s led to comparisons between the two tournaments. What are your thoughts on that?
Holden: It’s probably one of the most common questions I get on Twitter. How far would Brazil go in the Euros or Italy in the Copa America and vice versa. So I think it’s absolutely fair to ask those questions. I think this Brazilian team is easily a final four team in the Euros — Argentina maybe. It’s also very dependent on where you play those games. Is an Italian team traveling to the Maracaná? Or Brazil having to go and play at Wembley against that English team in a one off game? I think I would still take Brazil.
Let’s end on this: Were you secretly hoping that Brazil and Argentina would be in the final? (Holden picked Argentina to win the final, while Strong chose to not make a pick.)
Holden: Look, there’s great teams and there’s great storylines, but there’s no bigger storyline when it comes to entertainment on this level then Neymar vs. Messi; Brazil and Argentina. It’s a final that hasn’t happened since 2007. To be able to have two of the biggest hooks and considering what’s at stake with Messi, I mean it is the dream final.
Strong: It’s the inconvenient truth of sports television. Look at ratings for Super Bowls. Look at ratings for the NBA Finals. The bigger teams that are in it, the more people that tune in. It’s better for the Euros that England are in the final. People are going to be more interested in watching Neymar play Messi in the final, than perhaps had it been Colombia vs. Peru, not to be disrespectful to them. For me, I just root for good games. Absolutely, this is an exciting final. This ain’t the John and Stu show. This is the Messi and Neymar show and it’s our job to just paint around the edges of that.
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